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Message Board > Malarkey > What's with video game progress?

February 23, 2013, 19:08
Dennis
どこかにいる
2092 posts

What's with video game progression? Nothing is stunning anymore. For instance, compare the final fantasy games. This is pure graphical based of course.


Final Fantasy III from 1990:



11 years pass and you get this:

Final Fantasy X:



Then another 11 years pass and what you get is this:





To be honest there is not much difference between the last 2. Note the difference I get with comparing the first 2 games.


Now the question is why?

Is there a limit in science? Will we reach a static zone? In 5 years everything is invented and the world will stay the same for decades? Even centuries?


What's your opinion on this?

[Edited on February 27, 2013 by Dennis]
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Kwakkel
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February 26, 2013, 18:51
DTM
Earthling!
821 posts

I'm playing FFXIII-2 right now, woop. I only got a PS3 ~4 months ago and now they go and announce a PS4!?!?

Indeed I was a little disappointed with FFXIII's graphics since playing FFXII. I remember PS1 -> PS2 graphics seeming a great leap at the time, but PS2 -> PS3 has been less so.

Anyway the main difference was the transition to 3D isn't it? That seems to have been a massive leap forward, a paradigm shift...

I guess now graphics-wise it is just a long slow progression which will move forward slowly but surely as computing power does. I doubt we'll get photo realism for decades since the real world is so massively complex. Maybe we'll have "retina" quality when sitting a certain distance from your screen and only when the in game camera is above a certain distance from in-game surfaces.

I expect there will be more innovations in other things than graphics in the future. For example, more realistic animations, world interaction, more dynamic worlds, LARGER worlds (with procedural content..)

For example playing the game Assassin's Creed for the first time not long ago, the key innovation there was in character movement and interacting with the world.

Also what I'm *REALLY* looking forward to is this Occulus Rift virtual reality thing; hopefully this can bring a leap forward in immersion if not graphics. (Though I can see it still remaining a niche thing). Games designed from the ground up with VR in mind could be pretty cool.

I'm usually slow to bother with new tech but the reviews of Occulus Rift make it quite tempting...
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February 27, 2013, 01:26
Zomg
None
641 posts
DTM: I find the motion blur effect to give a considerable feeling of realism to games.

This is what I mean by motion blur:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghH7gbUZjwo

Crysis 3 Max settings DX11 1080P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXshiU6xY3c

Nice stuff.

We have moved from polygons to particle calculation. Since our reality consists of particles we are getting closer to reality. However, enormous amounts of RAM and computational power are needed for that real-time performance.

Furthermore, I speculate there is not much difference between the latter two Final Fantasy games because the government intends to keep it that way. If all our money would be pumped into video game development then there would be an alleged difference in graphics. However, our money is not being pumped so much into science as it is being pumped into the world's financial debt of banks.

I am not sure if a slow progression in graphics is directly correlated to a slow evolution and understanding in graphics design and/or limited hardware. One reason for an apparent slow progression in game graphics design might be that all of this is done on purpose. Large corporations want us to keep throwing away things and keep buying new things in order to keep the economy going. To further clarify what I am trying to explain here, I will show you this twenty minute probably worthwhile video:

http://www.storyofstuff.org/mo … story-of-stuff/

Something tells me that if we wanted a strong difference in computer graphics in what would be normally considered a short time, we would have already reached it by now. Perhaps the government secretly keeps the amazing graphics to themselves and feeds the public the previous-generation graphics. I don't know.

Perhaps why one observes a slight to no difference between the latest Final Fantasy titles is because the PS3 (or consoles for that matter) was not designed for a considerable visual difference between two titles in quick succession. It has its limitations in hardware and optical media storage space. This brings me back to the speculation that things are done on purpose. If Sony wants to keep making money (and the PS4 will be Sony's key product in Sony's revival because Sony has suffered a decreased sale on the PS3 compared to the PS2), they will have to slowly make the games better instead of maxing out the system in one go. Then what? The gamers will think that the graphics stalled. Well anyway, the same thing has happened with the xbox360 and with other consoles. Initially the console's games were designed for the console's beginning-age specs and as the console evolved the games got better graphics because they adapted to a better version of the console or a maxed out spec version. Again, it's all about the money I think. Slow progression and a steady stream of income from gamers that keep feeding their money to these game companies. They are hoping for better and more innovative products in return.
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As to the question if evolution will stagnate in five years, I think the answer could be that we will probably still keep evolving. We just allegedly discovered the Higgs Boson particle and we are just now in the baby steps to a complete understanding of our universe and what is referred to in theoretical physics as the Standard Model (Electromagnetic Force, Weak Force, Strong Force, Gravitation). Therefore I think there is still decades and centuries of research and evolution to come. Perhaps nuclear fusion (clean energy) could provide a better future for us. No more pollution. At least, one would hope so.

However, I am a little afraid of the limitation of our natural resources. I am afraid for our ecological life cycle. At the present time, powerful multi-billion dollar enterprises are manipulating our natural resources as we speak. Per day, about 600.000 tons of rock and beautiful natural habitat is being blown up in order to obtain gold. This is happening in one of the world's largest sources for gold: Peru. Their beautiful natural landscapes and rivers are being destroyed and vanish into dead wasteland because of these corporations that try to feed the modern world's constant need for rare ores such as gold. At this time they are not worried because they speculate that they have enough natural resources to keep up for another three centuries. Local Peruvians are fighting this act because it is causing great misery to them. Horrible things are going on. They are being oppressed by their local government. The large mighty corporations from the North (the U.S. of America) practically militarize the Peruvian government and bring in police force to forcefully keep quiet and imprison any civilian who protests against their inhuman acts. They are steadily destroying Peruvian landscapes and they don't care what the cost is. These poor civilians; farmers, are being driven away from their own houses and a cheap price of $30 per square 100m. Even if they protest, they are powerless because the government drives them away with local forces and after they left their homes they demolish their houses so they can plant new destructive sites to bombard more of their habitat in order to obtain more ore. It's a sad story.
Let us not forget that about 200 trees per hour are being cut away from the Amazone.

The point of this long story is the question if whether or not our technological evolution will be limited by the elimination of our natural resources. If we don't act responsible and if we don't do something about it, one day we will end up without resources to advance. We need to find alternative sources to oil and ores. Nuclear fusion might provide an answer to this problem, although I am not sure of that. It is possibly a dangerous idea.

That is my opinion on this matter.
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February 27, 2013, 10:18
Dennis
どこかにいる
2092 posts

Motion blur is nice. What would be realistic is a 3D environment where you can see things blurry that are next to you. For example: when you look straight forward you can actually see things move around very vaguely next to you. THat would add another dimension in (for instance) war games. That's the huge difference between paintball (irl) and shooter games.
Come to think of it, the 3D we experience is still on a flat screen, even when 3D effects are being simulated, it's still simulated, and not 100% correct. Plus, it doesn't work when you have 1 eye or close 1 eye. People with 1 eye have worse depth sight, but they still see everything IRL in 3D. That's also todo with the blur of where your eye is focussing on course. 3D + blur effects is truly an improvement on realism.

About the finances. I always wonder why creating a decent prosthetic limb is still not possible and 100% mechanical in most countries. It's kinda sad, for a culture that sent people to the moon almost 50 years ago.

I learned it's because people needing them are outnumbered. People only care for a majority. If you are slightly different from the median you are left out. Even when you are smarter or better than the median you'll feel left out. Like people with a very high or very low IQ are often not accepted by society.

Still, I hope the financial crisis gets solved. ICT is suffering badly.

Slightly off topic here, but hell. :)
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Kwakkel
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February 27, 2013, 15:45
Zomg
None
641 posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQR49JGySTM

Meet Battlefield 3 real life simulator. If you get shot in the game, you get shot in real life (electrocuted). That must be insane. Imagine a helicopter missile or a grenade. I couldn't imagine that.

I am not sure if creating a decent prosthetic limb is impossible nowadays, because I would find it hard to believe that. Perhaps one needs to keep trying and search for a top clinic or such where they do have very high quality prosthetic limbs. Something tells me they exist. Somewhere.

I am often left out of society because I am smarter than the median indeed.

The financial crisis will hopefully meet a resolution in due time.

I was not able to see the FFX chocobo before but now I see it and I finally see what you meant by the graphical difference. I see that the FFXIII chocobo is better detailed and consists of more polygons/particle data with more detailed feathers. One still sees, though, that these birds are not realistically displayed.

Perhaps this is also due to budgetary limitations in the ICT world. Less time to detail/improve graphics. However, I think the biggest reason for this slowdown is still that companies want to slowly make money by increasing games little by little.
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March 4, 2013, 18:28
DTM
Earthling!
821 posts

That simulator looks cool. Can't really see it ever being affordable for most people though.

I look forward to augmented reality. So, computer graphics placed on top of the real world.

Some random stuff I wrote a while ago:

Quote:
Imagine a VR headset, but with the real world fed in (e.g. through two cameras. Or perhaps a screen can be developed with transparent picture elements that allow seeing the real world through the screen depending on alpha). Virtual reality, video game content can then be superimposed and placed upon the real world. The virtual reality content can then be interacted with using some kind of peripheral - a gun controller, to shoot things, a movement sensing glove for throwing magic fireballs. The real world can perhaps be altered too - lighting dimmed, shadows added to simulate night while it is day.

This is the new gaming. Somewhere between real world sports and video games. You could have a tennis racket peripheral and play a match against a virtual reality famous player. You could fight off demons from hell in your garden, horrific monsters jumping out from behind your garden shed (Oh my! Video games that are athletic!). You square off on a playing field against your friend, standing apart, arms ready, and like a Final Fantasy game you summon huge beasts to fight on your behalf, a towering behemoth stands behind each of you, spewing fire and roaring, pounding the ground and causing a brief superimposed VR effect of the ground shaking up and down.

Monsters leave footprints in the virtual world, these are persistent - the entire virtual world is persistent perhaps (or at least as much as the average video game is).

Fight in the real world across the internet. Real world physical arenas could be built in different countries, identical in every way, a pro team in one country remotely battles a foreign team.

Different game types: a procedural game, which adapts to your own environment (the monster jumping from behind your garden shed). Or a completely virtual game, which you must play on a large open space, castles and chasms superimposed over the environment.

One key problem: the virtual world has no physical effect on you. Monsters or NPCs will not obstruct you (perhaps an NPC moves out the way if you get too close, or a close encounter with a monster turning your goggled vision red with blood). Or perhaps the virtual world simply stops moving, as you walk into a virtual wall. But it would be odd seeing the real world ground move beneath you as you continue running against a virtual wall. Perhaps even the ground is virtual - nothing real is seen. But then you might eventually walk into a real world object despite the virtual world being stationary.

Imagine the Final Fantasy style battle again, but perhaps even with the menu system superimposed over the screen. Do you press the "attack" option with your hand? Perhaps better, a hand gesture - you point your hand at your enemy and scream "attack".

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:o
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March 4, 2013, 22:31
Zomg
None
641 posts
Sounds very nice. :) :)

There are some cool videos (albeit fake ones) on it. The one with Halo. Not sure if you've seen that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk6AVld-UWI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb9yhw4jBy0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v … 00E&index=4

I think this one corresponds the most to what you just described:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX5W4l-LpYs

This one is also amazingly realistic and immersive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h4zTEwgCpQ

:)
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Message Board > Malarkey > What's with video game progress?

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