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| Message Board > Malarkey > need someone who's good at English |
| April 27, 2009, 16:20 | |
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Dennis
どこかにいる 2092 posts 
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Quote: Oracle Error :: PLS-00230 OUT and IN OUT formal parameters may not have default expressions Someone translated it to Dutch. In Dutch it sounds like this: "OUT and IN OUT formal parameters possibly have no default expressions" That sounds awfully absurd though. If I analyze what's going on I'd expect that it MUST not have default expressions. I wonder what do they mean by "may not"? What is the difference between "must not", "may not" and "might not" ? ____________ Kwakkel |
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| April 27, 2009, 16:36 | |
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Eckolin
Quite Whiskered 388 posts 
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"may not" can mean either "not allowed to", or express a measure of possibility. It is better to use the unambiguous "must not" instead. May and might are more tentative than must. ____________ Maker of Games... Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Need help with coding? I probably wrote something similar. |
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| April 27, 2009, 18:14 | |
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Fiona
games are terrible -9616558 posts 
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This was probably written by an English speaker since most native English speakers can't speak English.
____________ laffo |
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| April 27, 2009, 20:40 | |
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Sandman
F3n!x0r 1194 posts 
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"may not" is mostly used in this part of the world when something is a possibility, but doesn't have to be the case actually. Like "variable may not have been initialised".
____________ BennuWiki Yes, my avatar has grey borders in IE (so get a decent browser) ROOFLEZ ROOFLEZ |
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| April 27, 2009, 20:56 | |
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yonni
None 420 posts |
Quoting Fiona: This was probably written by an English speaker since most native English speakers can't speak English. "may not" can be used to negate the form of may meaning to give permission for an action, e.g. "Cinderella you may go to the ball". That is a perfectly valid use of "may" which could well pre-date the "may" form denoting that something could possibly, or possibly not, occur. In fact they're consistent. If you may (are allowed to) do something, then inherently you may (there is a possibility that you will or will not) do it. In this context, I don't think it sounds like an Englishman's writing, which I would expect to hear "...formal parameters may or may not/could possibly/etc. ..." or "...formal parameters cannot/must not/are not able to/etc. ..." because in most contexts when I hear the use of "may not" meaning "could possibly not" it is in conjunction with another clause/phrase that justifies the use e.g. * may or may not * could have ... but may not * may not in the situation where... Quote: May ... [is] more tentative than must. I wouldn't say so, where it's used as the imperative it normally has a harsher tone, which, depeding on context, can be more commanding that "must". The imperitive "may not" would be used on it's own. Thinking about it, it's used rather more formally than other synonyms. A teacher could say a child "may not" do something, a document could forbid by saying you "may not" do something. Not really often used like that in casual conversation I suppose "may not" is used in the "possibility" way when it has been suggested that the thing "may" occur. So not this situation. [Edited on April 27, 2009 by yonni] ____________ |
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| April 27, 2009, 22:43 | |
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Eckolin
Quite Whiskered 388 posts
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Quoting yonni: Quoting Eckolin: May ... [is] more tentative than must. I wouldn't say so, where it's used as the imperative it normally has a harsher tone, which, depeding on context, can be more commanding that "must".My quote was not concerned with the imperative case. You're correct of course. [Edited on April 27, 2009 by Eckolin] ____________ Maker of Games... Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Need help with coding? I probably wrote something similar. |
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| April 28, 2009, 02:01 | |
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Mezzmer
Square-theorist 792 posts 
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I CANS SPEEK GOOD ENGKLISH WHAT IS THE PROBLEM [Edited on April 28, 2009 by Mezzmer] ____________ |
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| April 28, 2009, 02:02 | |
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Mezzmer
Square-theorist 792 posts
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by the way "may not" as an error generally means strictly. so you cannot have, so to speak. trust me 
____________ |
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| April 28, 2009, 10:42 | |
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Dennis
どこかにいる 2092 posts
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It would be logic if it were not allowed to use defaults for out parameters within Oracle For those that don't know what an OUT parameter is, it is like a "return" in a function, it passes an address and behind the scenes. if you assign a value to the out parameter it writes directly in the argument you sent, but you cannot make the parameter optional. "it must have defaults" = it is obliged to have defaults "it must NOT have defaults" = it is NOT obliged to have defaults "it may have defaults" = it is allowed to have defaults "it may NOT have defaults" = it is NOT allowed to have defaults So WHYYYYYY did they translate it to "possibly have no default expressiosn" when it means "you are not allowed to use default expressions". -_- Must not = May not? wtffffffffffff I get the feeling the NOT-operator fails to work properly in English.exe °v° ____________ Kwakkel |
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| April 28, 2009, 12:18 | |
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Sandman
F3n!x0r 1194 posts
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Because "may not" is mostly used like that in compilers, afaik.
____________ BennuWiki Yes, my avatar has grey borders in IE (so get a decent browser) ROOFLEZ ROOFLEZ |
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| April 28, 2009, 17:09 | |
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Dennis
どこかにいる 2092 posts
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yeah. It may not have been clear at the beginning... Translator deserves some serious butt spanking. ____________ Kwakkel |
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| April 28, 2009, 23:29 | |
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PB
Defender of the faith 630 posts 
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I'm confused... Why is Cinderella not allowed to go to the ball? 
____________ |
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| April 29, 2009, 12:07 | |
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Dennis
どこかにいる 2092 posts
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I have no idea why she may not go to the ball, PB.
____________ Kwakkel |
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Message Board > Malarkey > need someone who's good at English